Ένεκα του μεγέθους της, δημοδιεύουμε ξεχωριστά την ακόλουθη απάντηση αναγνώστη μας, σε σχόλιο της προϊγούμενης καταχώρησης, προς καλλύτερη ενημέρωση των ίποιων ενδιαφερομένων, ασχολούνται με το συγκεκριμένο θέμα, ως προς την Αρχιεπισκοπή και τον υπό ...παραίτηση ή απομάκρυνση του νυν Σωτήριου... Διαβέστε το, λοιπόν, και σχολιάστε σύμφωνα με τη γνώμη σας και τις ό,ποιες γνώσεις σας για το εν λόγω θέμα... Ιδού:
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αναγνώστη μας "Όλοι για το θρόνο".!!!"
12:47 except you don't know who it will be so you can't say that with any certainty, mr doom & gloom. Maybe it will be a holy person like a Geronda Ephraim or Christodoulos type who would be a big spiritual gift for Canada
.At this point
only 2 people know for sure, God and the Patriarch. Let's not forget Patriarch
Bartholomew did not install Archbishop Sotirios. He inherited him. The problems
in North America point to the former Archbishop of North and South America,
Iakovos. He's the one who tried to create a new church and break off from our
Mother Church which is quite egotistical to do given our ancient faith links
back directly to the Apostles (Bartholomew is only #230). It was Iakovos who
forced the Patriarch to make bishops who were only celibate priests (an
innovation) and not actual monks who were trained under holy Gerondes in
monasteries. Iakovos is the reason we have Sotirios! People in America like
Iakovos because he schmoozed with the politicians, not recognizing the damage
he was doing. It's hard to take out a Metropolitan or Archbishop without concrete
evidence. Sotirios has made it very public and clear he will retire once he
reaches a milestone jubilee, he said it public so it would get back to the
Patriarch, which it did. So unless someone comes forward with serious evidence
he won't step down until his 50th jubilee this December. The reason we have
Metropolises in North America is also because of Iakovos. That was the only way
for the Patriarch to manage the powerful and popular Iakovos who wanted to
break off from the Mother Church. At the time it was a smart strategic move but
Bartholomew needs to undo what he did before he dies or steps down for health
reasons. He can do that now under Elpidophoros because he's ideologically a
supporter of the Mother Church, despite some of his liberal tendencies. And
whoever Bartholomew will put in Canada will also be a person aligned with our
ancient faith and supports the Mother Church. You do realize some of the most
famous Saints in the Church were hierarchs. Just look at St Chrysostom, St
Gregory, St Basil, St Nektarios etc. This idea that all hierarchs are shit and
corrupt and all the same is an extremist view. Yes, lots of them are terrible,
but not all of them. And yes all of the celibate hierarchs in North America are
some of the worst ones, and that's why the church canons say no one should be
made a bishop who is not a monk. I would go one step further and say they need
to be megalo schema monks (highest ranking on a monastic) first, which most
hierarchs are not, including our Patriarch and Elpidophoros who are both monks
Ολα αυτά που γράφονται απο τον σχολιαστή 6.38 φανερώνουν ότι προτιμά ή λατρεύει τους γέροντες με το να μιλα με τέτοια αυστηρή κριτική εναντίον πολλών δεσποτάδων.
ReplyDeleteΗ Ορθόδοξη Εκκλησία δεν λατρεύει, ουτε αγιοποιεί τον γεροντισμό και τους γέροντες. Στήν πραγματικότητα οι πραγματικοί γέροντες (καλόγεροι) ζούν στην αφάνεια. Δεν κυνηγάνε θέσεις ούτε ζητούν να έχουν οπαδούς
Από τα γραφόμενα του λοιπόν θέλει να παρουσιάσει τον εαυτό του σαν φίλο του γεροντισμού και ότι όλοι οι αλλοι έκαναν σοβαρά λάθη. Εφ΄ όσον οι πραγματικοί γέροντες ζουν στη αφάνεια γιατι κατηγορώντας πλαγίως τους άλλους δεσποτάδες , θέλει να φανερώσει με το ζόρι τους γέροντες?.
Ο γεροντισμός εξελίχθηκε στις αρχές του εικοστού πρώτου αιώνα, σε μεγάλο βαθμό, . Δεν είναι λάθος κάποιος να έχει ένα πνευματικό ιερέα για την εξομολόγηση και τη πορεία του
Γίνεται όμως επικίνδυνο και καταστροφικό όταν η ανάγκη αναζήτησης ενός «Γέροντα» φθάνει στην υπερβολή . Και αυτή η υπερβολή υπάρχει
Ο άνθρωπος που είναι δούλος του Γεροντισμού κάνει αδιάκριτη κ τυφλή υπακοή στον «Γέροντα», σε ό,τι και αν πει,
Το αποτέλεσμα; Πολλά διαζύγια γεννήθηκαν, πολλά σπίτια έκλεισαν, πολλές προσωπικότητες καταστράφηκαν από τέτοιες καταστάσεις.
10:32 first of all, Christ is the model monastic and monasticism was formalized a very long time ago. It's nothing new.
DeleteAnd yes there is a distinct difference between a bishop/archbishop/metropolitan who is not a monk, who is a drive-by monk, and who is trained for year's in a monastery.
And when you look at all of the Saints that keep on being canonized even in our lifetime, they're all monastics and not celibate priests which is an innovation. Celibate priests in not a tradition of the church. All of the ones we have in north America are a result of archbishop iakovos. But let me be clear, living at the Patriarchate which is registered as a “monastery” is not in the slightest bit a traditional monastery. And patriarch Bartholomew who is only a micro/small-schema monk does not have the skill set to be their Geronda. That place is a cesspool and a battleground. And when you go there you see firsthand that's not a traditional monastery. And yes obviously there are sick monks too but the ones who make it to megalo-sxhema ranking (the highest level) there are less sick ones and more spiritually enlightened ones.
Archbishop Sotirios is a celibate priest and not a monastic and you can easily tell. A real trained monastic would never announce from the throne that first he's a businessman and then he's a bishop. If you want a businessman to be your spiritual leader then Sotirios is perfect for you. I don't, I want a spiritually enlightened leader.
Also, there are monastics who were made saints that didn't live just in the monastery but were also Bishops, have you ever heard of St Nektarios of Aegina who was a Bishop? He didn't chase the throne, he didn't even want it, but he understood the virtue of obedience as a monk and went where the Churh needed him.
The benefit of having a bishop who is a real monk is that they have gone through intensive training. Celibate priests who are bishops have zero training other than going for a few years to these shitty seminary schools in Toronto and Boston. Most monks are required
to finish school even if they only want to live in a monastery for the rest of their lives. Education is important anywhere you live. But the Church doesn't need academic bishops who think they're the smartest person in the room, the church needs spiritual leaders. Sometimes they are both but not often enough.
So this isn't about some obsession with Gerondes. It's about the intensive training they undergo. Go to a monastery for even a short time and you’ll see the intensive and hard training they endure every single day. It's like being trained in the army which we all know is intensive training. Would you want to go to war with someone who can read a book or someone who is properly trained? It's the same thing with spiritual leaders who know how to fight spiritual warfare.
So no I'm no fanatic and do not have a photo of any Geronda in my home and do not go to monasteries often. But from what I've seen it's not an easy life, it's very regimented. You can't behave like how Sotirios does. You can't be obsessed with money. They smash your ego. The problem in Canada which many people have said even on this blog is that we have bishops and priests with massive egos. Well what do people except when the “geronda” spiritual leader has no idea how to train his priests so they are humble and not arrogant. The problem in Canada starts from the “boss” the “leader” and he knows how to hoard money but he's far from spiritually enlightened.
Clearly you like Sotirios’ style. Most people want a spiritual leader. Not someone who is busy selling raffle tickers for a Mercedes Benz to go into an account that no one knows how much money is in there and what exactly the money is used for. Good luck on the lottery for the car!
10:32 pm--- what you wrote: Στήν πραγματικότητα οι πραγματικοί γέροντες (καλόγεροι) ζούν στην αφάνεια. Δεν κυνηγάνε θέσεις…” shows you obviously don't understand monasticism. It's not about where you live but about how you live. Its about asceticism.
DeleteMany Saints were hierarchs! Since you don't not know the lives of some of our biggest saints maybe you should do some fact-checking first.
Just to name a few monks who were Bishops:
- St John Chrysostom (a Patriarch)
- St Basil the Great
- St Gregory the theologian (a Patriarch)
- St Gregory Palamas
- St Iereneas the Great (newest saint announced just last week from the Phanar)
- St Genadios Scholarios
- St Philotheos o kokkinos - St Isaac the Syrian
- St Athanasios the Great (a Patriarch and a disciple of St Anthony who was one of the founders of monasticism).
Also no one is talking about confession. It doesn't matter if you confess to a priest or a priest-monk. This is about hierarchy, the leaders of the church, not local parish priests. No one is saying we should worship Gerontes. It's about the training monks receive, especially those at the highest levels.
If you're saying there's no difference if a celibate priest becomes a bishop
or a high-ranking monk becomes a bishop, then you have been asleep in Canada for the last 40+ years with Sotirios as the “spiritual leader.” He's the best example of why the canons say bishops needs to be monks so we don't end up with Sotirios who cares about running a business, not running a Church. If Sotirios wants to be a businessman he can go to Bay Street, but I doubt he'd survive there given his tactics.
No one can say with any evidence that Sotirios is a spiritual leader, let alone an enlightened one. Absolutely no one.
What you are saying about Sotirios and the others is well known to many people. From your writing we can understand how you think. Also you are saying that you are not fanatic but your words prove the opposite
DeleteUnfortunately many monks and priests feel comfortable to be called Gerontes . And at the same time may feel happy when are gossiping or judging others.
The church is divine and holy but we are not. The world has a tendency to judge .Today people are very judgmental. .
The Church needs leaders with spiritual and psychological balance and human understanding .Leaders who are part of this world without been slaves of this world..
6:41 we don't call priests Gerondes. Nor do we can call any monk a Geronda. So to say that many priests and monks don't feel comfortable being called that makes no sense. At the monastery, there is only 1 Geronda. Not everyone. We also call spiritually enlightened monks like Saint Paisios was referred to as Geronda, regardless of the person is their spiritual child. And technically speaking, heads of regions, such as an Archbishop can also be called Gerondes by his clergy but again that’s generally used to one who is a bishop and an actual monk. And why Sotirios who is a celibate priest does not like that term to be used towards him, which I don’t think most see him as a Geronda in the traditional spiritual sense.
DeleteThe Church needs spiritual leaders who are trained spiritually. And spiritual training can't be found at PTOTA or HCHC. They are academically based. If you look at the courses and syllabus you can see for yourself.
This isn’t about judging people. This is about rigorous training. Someone who isn’t trained to go to war, is simply a fact. Someone can have a degree in business but it’s very different to have a degree from someone who is training under a financial leader. One is theoretical, one is daily training. If the seminarians in North America were run by spiritual leaders instead of business people (Sotirios for PTOTA, Mr Cantonis for HCHC) we would be having a different conversation now. But it’s the certain people in the church that create this hard divide from the spiritual and academia world. It’s why the concept of Halki school makes the most sense. It’s academic and ascetic (so there are some similarities to a monastery). But you can’t do that in North America when the people at the top of these seminarians haven’t had ascetic training and others are lay people from the business world.
As for me being a fanatic, I am not nor does my writing indicate that. I am for people selecting multiple spoons if that’s what makes them more comfortable to commune. I believe you baptize children even if the parents are gay or single parents, or not married. Because those are about bringing people close to God. The innovation of being a celibate priest means you have little spiritual training, and that’s where the issue lies. I don’t care about being married or not. I care if they’ve had their egos smashed and are humble, that’s not done in a classroom, that’s done by a Geronda.
Agreed. And it’s not enough to just be tonsured a monk. Look at the drive by monks that have been tonsured as monks in Canada and none of them ever stepped foot in a monastery. It’s an embarrassment and that’s on Sotirios and Iakovos. Anywhere there’s shit in the church in Canada one or both of them are involved somehow.
ReplyDeleteIt’s not going to be anyone from Canada to succeed Sotirios. And those who don’t believe me, remember this post when the vote happens at the Phanar. That day there will be parties in the streets and everyone (except bishop Iakovos, Tasia + her son archon Evangelos and their bud Fanourios) will rejoice! This day can’t come soon enough. Let’s get this party started.
ReplyDelete—EPB
It will not be a vote. Bart will appoint and the rest will follow
ReplyDeleteExcept it literally is a vote. But it’s based on the name that the Patriarch puts forward. The Archbishop for Cyprus there were votes against him. While it's not common, it does happen. Let's not forget that the hierarchs around the world are split into 2 distinct groups. And when you see someone voted against it means that hierarchy is a good one and not part of the church mafia.
DeleteThat's true Bartholomew did not put Sotirios in Canada, his predecessors did. If he puts someone good in Canada it will not be a unanimous vote, it will be a battle to the death. Worse than what happened with the Archbishop of Cyprus.
ReplyDeleteHiearchs around the world seem to think that the church in Canada is the richest so lots of people want it. What they don't realize is that Sotirios starves the church in Canada to give to the Phanar. There's no investment into any programming or education. The church in Canada is on life support and it will stay like that if Sotirios is replaced with another gay mafia leader. If that's the case, everyone’s better off going to other Orthodox churches which are not Greek.
It's so stupid what's happened in Canada where the archbishop and bishop iakovos and former bishop bart tonsured a handful of people who have no ties to monasticism or even a monastery. Another example of making the church a joke. And the patriarch does nothing. No surprise. No idea why the churches are empty or why people have left and gone to other churches. Couldn't possibly be because of who is running the church in Canada.
ReplyDeleteCould you imagine Sotirios at a monastery? It’s hard to guess which would happen first, that he’d leave when he realized he can’t make money off of them or they’d kick him out? It’s really a coin toss.
ReplyDeleteThe church in Canada is run into the ground. I don’t think people outside of Canada know this. Sotirios has created an illusion of grandiosity because of the millions he sends to Turkey every year.
ReplyDelete